Is Popov The Greatest 50 Meter Freestyler of All-Time?
Is Alexander Popov the greatest 50 meter freestyler of all-time? As of this writing (you can still vote), 55% of Timedfinals.com readers believe so. Let’s look at the facts:
Alexander Popov is the world record holder in the event in 21.64, albeit it was set in a time trial, not in competition. He won two Olympic gold medals in 1992 and 1996. Popov also won gold at the World Championship in 1994 and 2003 and a silver in 1998.
Gary Hall Jr. is the third fastest performer of all time in 21.76 set at the US Olympic Trials in 2000. He won silver behind Popov in 1996, he tied for gold in 2000 with Anthony Ervin, and won gold solo in 2004. Hall also won a silver at the 1994 World Championships.
Matt Biondi is the seventh fastest man ever in 21.85 and won gold in 1988 over Tom Jager and silver in 1992 behind Popov. Biondi won a bronze in 1986 and a silver in 1991 at the World Championships.
Tom Jager is the fifth fastest ever in 21.81 and ranked ahead of Biondi, but has only won an Olympic silver in 1988 behind Biondi and a bronze medal in 1992 behind Popov and Biondi. Tom Jager, though, won two World Championship gold medals in 1986 and 1991.
What are your thoughts? Who is your favorite and why? Did we leave anyone out?
Comment by Kyle
Posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 10:41
I go with Popov because he has the fastest time ever, and he won on the Olympic stage against the best and wasn’t brash about it. I love the energy and passion displayed by GH Jr. and now Schoeman and Magnini (though he’s more of the hundred swimmer) because that’s what it’s about. But deep down, I go with the quieter guy that gets the job done. I still want to see GH Jr. go for gold in ‘08!
Comment by Michael
Posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 12:34
Popov? Sorry, but Popov’s time was a time trial. Being of the old school, if it ain’t in a real competition, all the potential negatives to trip the swimmer up are simply absent. So, sorry.
Is he top 3? Of course!
But for my vote, I go with Gary Hall, Jr.
Comment by J.J.
Posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 16:15
Interesting point, Michael. Makes me wonder, if there is an unfair advantage in a Time Trial; why even bother allowing records that way? Seems kinda meaningless to set a record without any competition.
Comment by Mario Palomera
Posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 17:21
It was not a time trial. It was Russian Olympic Trials…
Comment by Mario Palomera
Posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 17:23
And Jager time was in a heat with just 3 swimmers. Popov’s record was with all 8 swimmers. Schoeman with all 8 competitive swimmers. Popov is the one who has stayed at the top for the longest time, he is also the only one who has gone under 22 in long course for more than six times or more.
Comment by Kyle
Posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 19:46
His record was as good as a time trial.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9802EFDE1731F934A25755C0A9669C8B63
Comment by Mario Palomera
Posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 21:28
Ok. So you feel turned down by a time trial. How about Gary´s Marihuana?
Comment by Tony Austin
Posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 22:47
Ok. So you feel turned down by a time trial. How about Gary´s Marihuana?
If he can do what he did after smoking pot then they should have given him two medals.
Comment by Cornell
Posted on April 23rd, 2007 at 23:13
Sorry to upset the phallocentric tendentiousness here, but…
Inge de Bruijn is the greatest 50M freestyler of all time.
Comment by lablom
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 00:23
The greatest….hmmm. Hard one! Maybe there’s an answer to be found in further itemization and analysis, both statistical and subjective–some flash of clarity with the vagueness of that term.
Let’s consider it this way…
– The fastest ever, one end to the other, at 2.30 metres a second: Popov
– Olympic Gold medals: Hall Jr. (Two–2000/4) and Popov (Two–1992/96), Biondi (One–1988)
– Number of 50m. World Records: Jager (6), Biondi (3), Popov (1), Hall (0)
– Longest Duration of WR: Jager (10 yrs), Popov (7 yrs), Biondi (1 yr)
– Longevity (duration btwn first WR and last one, broken): Jager (15 yrs, 1985-2000), Popov (7 yrs), Biondi (3 yrs, 1986-89)
– Speed endurance (relative 100m success for curious consideration): Biondi (4 WRs, 1 Olym. Gold), Popov (1 WR, 2 Olym. Gold, 1 Silv.), Hall Jr. (0 WR, 1 Silv., 1 Bonze)
– Raw speed, fierceness (ranked in order): Jager, Hall Jr., [Schoeman here], Popov
– Style and artfulfulness in water: Popov, Biondi, Jager
– Style and Sportsmanship (out of the water): Popov, Biondi, Jager
– Showmanship and Flair: Hall Jr., Jager and Biondi (tie)
– Historical/Pop-culture/Philosophical Doppelgangers:
BIONDI/the Karate Kid (raw talent)/Bobby Fischer (strategical acumen)/Rene Descartes (I Swim therefore I am;
HALL JR.=Rocky Balboa (Rocky IV, V and VI?)/Reggie Mantle (ego)/Mikhail Bakunin (radical, almost anarchistic individualism);
JAGER/Winston Churchill (persistant fighting spirit)/Spider Man (explosive power and musculature)/ Sun Tzu (Art of War);
POPOV/Leo Tolstoy (another Russian creator of epic narratives)/the shark from Jaws (as the most fish-like swimmer ever)/Frederich Neitzsche (the slightly melancholy, yet positivist philosophy inherent in the Will to Power)
So…… What does this all mean?
1. Popov takes it, as the current world record holder, one that has stood for many years, and being tied for the most Olympic Gold medals.
2. My sentimental favourite is Jager…it would be a lock if he had won the covented 50m Olympic Gold, even just once. His legacy on all other fronts is untouchable.
3. Hall Jr., bless him, can inch closer with another gold in 2008, and would seal the deal with a WR that stood for awhile, race or time trial.
Cheers!
L. Blomgren
Comment by lablom
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 00:29
Oh…one last thought. My historial equilalent for Gary Hall Jr. would be a toss up between Timothy Leary and Buster Keaton.
Comment by JJ
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 00:34
lablom: lol LOVED your anaysis; you should apply to the networks for swimming commentator position; you could be to swimming what Dennis Miller was to Monday Night Football….
Comment by lala
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 00:43
Excellent lablom. You logic has made me see the light.
Comment by aquad
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 04:32
Popov now, hall if he wins a third oly gold.
Comment by Jim Christian
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 07:32
It’s interesting that you assume the greatest 50 freestyler is a man, because I could make a pretty strong argument for Inge de Bruin. WR since 9/00 (going on 7 years), 2 Olympic gold medals, 3 world championships gold medals, and 8 of the top 10 swims all-time. Those stats beat any of the guys you have listed.
Comment by aquad
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 08:09
Inge de Bruijn World record has been realised with an insanely fast reaction time of 0″41. Some swimmers in Sydney thought that it was made thanks to a false start.
Comment by Jordan McGerw
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 10:08
Personally Gary Hall Jr. is the greatest 50 freestyler ever to live. When it comes to the 50 who cares about the time its beating the people around you and when it comes to the olympics ya mr. hall may not swim in many meets but he loves to race and when the olympics roll around he is always prepared and always comes to win
Comment by Jim
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 10:52
I hate to bring this up, because de Bruijn always seemed like such a nice person and good ambassador for the sport when I saw her interviewed on TV. I’m not completely familiar with her swimming history; but as a physician, since we’re on the topic of her record, I feel compelled to say that some of her unusual facial features are reminiscent of the physical stigmata of HGH use. Someone told me once that her ex-husband or coach had been involved in providing athletes with performance enhancing drugs or something like that. Has anyone else ever brought that up anywhere? I hope it is all coincidence and rumors. I am also wondering whether they were testing for HGH back when she was swimming. I am definitely not accusing her, just want to see if anyone else has noticed this. Thanks.
Comment by Scott
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 11:00
Jim - there is a long conversation that was going on over on the de Bruijn retirement post about this subject.
Comment by Julie
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 17:17
Jim whoooahh. I never thought a medico could be so ignorant. I hope you are more careful with your patient’s identity.
Inge De bruin was never married.
Michelle Smith married a Mr De Bruin in 97. Mr De Bruin was former t& F guy who had served a drig suspension.
If you suspect Inge -ok - bit remember she lived for 7 years in Oregon & trained under one of your greatest coaches. That means she would have accessed the stuff locally.
Comment by Jim
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 19:17
Julie; LOL not sure what a “medico” is or which patient of mine you are referring to, (I do have more than one you know, ;-) )but I can assure you that all is in order at work; I have good staff that help keep things sorted.
And we’re all ignorant about some things, as I can see by everyones’ posts, yours included. That’s why we’re here, to exchange info and ideas. I’m way more current on the medical literature in my field than I am about womens’ swimming history from a decade ago, for example. Sports medicine is a very different field from mine. And if I knew everything I needed to know about swimming, I wouldn’t be on here. I posed it as a rumor/question and prefaced it by saying that I wasn’t familiar with her whole swimming history.
Please see the de Brujin retirement post that Scott was kind enough to reference above, and there I replied about my friend’s error that you pointed out. It was one that was made by many others years ago back when she suddenly started winning and setting records.
As far as suspecting de Bruijn, I do have a little suspicion left. But since this matter of the de Bruin association was cleared up for me today, and also someone on that other post was reported finding photos for comparison documenting no change in facial structure from 1991 to present, making my suspicion of HGH less likely. The only remaining controversy in my mind seems to be why she improved so much as she got older, and was it sudden vs. gradual. I have heard interesting arguments on both sides of that issue, and given that it sounds like she had some conflicts with the swimming federation in Netherlands which made her decide not to swim in the Olympics in’96, we may never know.
But I do think it is possible that a change of scenery and improved psychological condition may have been the impetus for improvement. And as far as her setting records by dramatic margins; I don’t see that as even circumstantial evidence; as Phelps is currently doing the same, most likely from a combination of a flukey, seemingly genetically pefect, body for swimming, increased strength due to age/growth and a new dryland program, and improved mental state from his low in ‘95 as he adjusted to fame and financial success, etc. So one could make similar arguments for Inge De Bruijn’s dramatic record-breaking margins.
The only thing I haven’t seen yet is an answer to my question about whether she was tested for HGH back then; (yes I am “ignorant” or confused about current and previous testing procedures) it seems I have read reports such as Italian swimmers testing positive for it last year or two in Italy but not sure if FINA tests for it. My impression is that she wasn’t, but that nobody was, so it may be a moot point anyway.
When you said that Inge trained under one of “my” greatest coaches, I’m not sure where you think I’m from or what my role is. But more importantly I think it’s pretty clear that to date, athletes in a variety of sports have demonstrated that they have been able to access a variety of illegal performance enhancing substances in a variety of countries. I don’t view it as a political issue between countries or teams, as you seem to with your last paragraph, i.e. your observation that de Bruijn “trained under one of your greatest coaches”. Rather, and I think you would agree, it seems to be an issue about the integrity of our sport, which is why most of us here are interested in it. It is sad when a swimmer from any country is found guilty of doping, and it is sad that this kind of discussion is necessary for us to educate each other and ourselves, as it detracts and distracts from the enjoyment of the sport. Thanks for the info.
Jim
Comment by Michael
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 19:55
OK - this is a discussion, but as of now, it’s Jim 3; Julie 1.
Comment by Julie
Posted on April 24th, 2007 at 22:09
That is too long to reply to unless I go get some adderall.
As Inge has just retired she would have been tested to the exact standards as everyone else . Of course it takes so long to get results that nobody can ever be sure where they stand.
But surely one just cant get on here & deduce that someone is on hgh when they dont even know who the person is.
You are reading politics into it. I leave the anti-american stuff to people with a pilot license.
Comment by JJ
Posted on April 25th, 2007 at 03:29
Good evening,LOL good one Julie! But you’d better go get that Adderall if you want to keep up with the rest of us; this swim geek wannabe, for one, is just getting started here. Or half a No-Doz would do if you’re at risk for random testing these days.
I’m not sure if anyone deduced that deBruijn took HGH; I haven’t. In fact, I appear to be in process of deducing the opposite, if you read my posts carefully. But questions will likely remain for her and others like her, and deductive reasoning will be our imperfect method until the testing gets more sophisticated. She hasn’t competed for years now internationally, so it’s the testing from ‘04 and previous that would be of most interest to me; I’m still wondering whether the protocols are the same now as then.
Until you can better explain what you meant by “one of your greatest coaches”; (and at this point I have no idea or interest in who yours are by the way,its not relevant here),then I stand by my claim. You were warning me against a potential double-standard for suspicion, because for some reason, perhaps that I’ve focused on a European, you were assuming I may have a pro-American bias.
Although I have actually been accused of being anti-American myself, I’d never go the way of the pilots you mentioned even if I did have a license. As you said, you’ll have to leave that to them I guess. America is trying to recover from another tragedy from within this week so I suggest that you avoid kicking them when they’re down by raising the spectre of 9/11; though you’re welcome to regale me with more appropriate jokes like the Adderall jokes given the length of this post.
Jim
Score,Michael??